Stoke-on-Trent City Council Meeting 30/1/14

I've only just viewed the webcast of the Stoke-on-Trent full council meeting of 30th January 2014, there were speakers for two petitions and an interesting debate on the High Speed 2 rail line plans.

Petitions

Alan Barrett (00:26:48) presented a petition arguing against council expenditure on the central business district (CBD) and high pay and allowances for councillors and staff.  I would agree that the CBD spending is ill thought out, if businesses want to come to Hanley then fine, but sparse council tax payers money should not be wasted there.  I wouldn't agree with Alan's proposed 30% cut in expenses.  If expenses are what is meant, then actual expenditure should be reimbursed, as even Alan says.  Salaries and allowances were also mentioned and whilst some of these are ridiculously high, I would prefer a solution of curbing pay rises for the higher paid and not taking on staff at crazily high salaries.  Alan highlighted that pay rises for some low paid staff are poor but for some already highly paid staff are high.

Cllr Terry Follows (00:30:24) presented a petition to make Hanford Park an Alcohol Restriction Zone due to the culture of late night drinking and the damage caused to children’s play equipment.  Terry talked about the problems of not only under age drinking but those old enough to drink causing problems by damaging play equipment, leaving broken bottles, bad language and drug taking.  Terry thought that ideally there would be a blanket ban on drinking in all parks in the city, but clearly this park is in his ward (the same ward I live in also).  I wholeheartedly agree, but then I choose not to drink alcohol - so I would say that wouldn't I?  One of the many reasons I choose not to drink, alongside horrible feelings in the head, reduced sensitivity and enjoyment of life, adverse health implications and consuming unnecessary calories, is the damaging effects I see it causing in society.  So I vote with my feet and avoid it myself.  The counter argument that people will make is that responsible drinking in moderation does virtually no harm to anyone so why shouldn't responsible people be allowed to drink in parks?  It's a reasonable point if I accept that others get some pleasure from alcohol, but the facts are that out there on the ground, the sort of drinking that goes on in parks is rarely responsible.  So I hope the Alcohol Restriction Zone goes ahead.

High Speed 2

I'm pushed for time for blogging, so won't refer to individual contributions in detail, but the discussion, commencing at (00:35:05) is worth viewing.  Of course there is a bit of councillor waffle, but there are some decent points made as well. The discussion and vote was on an alternative to the draft HS2 plans, which would include a station in Stoke-on-Trent.  It seems that all councillors agree with this, as I do.  There are disagreements about whether HS2 is a good idea or not.  I'm one of those who can't see a reasonable case for the amount of expenditure on this.  However given the constraint that government and opposition nationally support HS2, so we will get it anyway, the alternative detailed seems a good idea.  I haven''t been able to find a map which would have been helpful.  Points made by councillors included that the council's alternative proposal allows better access to HS2 from our area, improvements to the city that would arise, a better route both environmentally and politically, cheaper and with a sooner completion date.  It was stated that Newcastle Borough Council approves Stoke-on-Trent's alternative proposal but Stone Town Council does not.  There wasn't much clarity presented on Staffordshire County Council's view.

Stoke-on-Trent City Council Meeting 17/10/13

Life is busy and fun but I've just had time to catch up with the Stoke-on-Trent full council meeting and watched the webcast.  I present my personally selected 'highlights' with webcast times given in brackets.

Petition against coal bed methane extraction

Emanuel Blondel (00:16:00)  from 'Gas Free Stoke' presented a petition against coal bed methane extraction.  He expressed concerns about potential safety issues with the mine shafts and the effect on the water table.  He did not think drilling was needed as we have existing methane vents.  He said coal bed methane extraction would be contracted to large companies providing only poorly paid short term jobs.  He expressed a preference for energy from biomass and industrial heat and he wanted a more local focus.

Update on capital spending plans

Cllr Andy Platt (00:26:53) talked about the green enterprise programme and mentioned some of the issues raised in the petition.  He said a biomass boiler would be commissioned by the end of the month in Longton and a wood fuel processing hub should be operational by next summer although a site has yet to be selected.  He said they were looking at organic waste treatment but gave no details.  He also said they were considering geothermal sources including mine water although current investigations are inconclusive as to whether this is viable or not.  He mentioned that the ceramics industry uses gas but measures 800 ^oC on the roof where heat escapes.  He wants to find ways to use this to heat homes but didn't give further detail.  He said coal bed methane shouldn't be confused with shale gas and it would be useful to collect and use the coal bed methane readily available.

CllrJack Brereton (00:32:52) criticised the council's move of the civic centre and the risky debt involved.   He rightly pointed out that leaving out interior costs for the new building was misleading and verges on negligence.

Cllr Paul Breeze (00:44:09) also criticised the debt, lack of openness and lack of public support.  He said they were holding back the Potteries Shopping Centre from opening a business.  He accused the council leaders of recklessness and said he could not support the proposal.

Cllr Ann James (0:45:33) said she and the city independents had voted against the capital programme in February because they weren't happy with the risk assessment and costings, they are not allowed to debate this and at the last cabinet they were not allowed to call in the issue for scrutiny!  She criticised the accuracy of the figures because an extra £30million is now required including 7.5million for the central business district.  She questioned how many times it would come back requiring more money and said she would not support the proposal.

Cllr Adrian Knapper (0:52:19) talked about other cities and their shopping centre developments.  He seems to want another shopping centre, but we've got the Potteries shopping centre.  In my view it would be all very well having another one if there were any businesses or customers wanting it, but there doesn't appear to be much evidence of this.  

Stoke-on-Trent City Council Meeting 21/3/13

I arrived just at the right time at the civic centre, in Stoke, for the full council meeting. I'd come direct from a bracing but very scenic 9 mile walk in the Peak District (followed by a nice latte and naughty slice of carrot cake at The Old Smithy in Monyash). It was good to see a packed public gallery, including some from March On Stoke.

There were a few circulations within the public gallery:

1. 'The Betrayal of Stoke-on-Trent', a letter to Council Leader Mohammed Pervez from Richard Snell of 'Save Our Stoke'
2. A leaflet from 'March On Stoke' “In loving memory of Democracy which has sadly passed away in Stoke-on-Trent. May you be resurrected in 2015."
3. An email address and telephone number which I shan't publish without the owner's permission, directed at those who care about Stoke.

I refer as usual to webcast times in brackets.

Cllr Breeze & the Lord Mayor

The meeting started with a spat between independent Cllr Paul Breeze and Lord Mayor Terry Crowe, who clearly aren't getting on at present. Paul Breeze (0:14:34), under minutes of the last meeting, challenged the Lord Mayor for throwing us all out of the public gallery at the last meeting, including those such as myself who were not shouting out or being disruptive in any way. He asked if Terry Crowe would apologise but Terry Crowe (0:15:14) would not.

Petitions 

There were two speakers for petitions present but unfortunately only one of them got to speak.

Kristian Foster (0:24:18) presented a petition to “stop all plans to relocate the civic centre”. Obviously there is overwhelming support from ordinary people for this petition. Kristian highlighted the council's propensity for wasting money, clarified that we are not against the CBD, just against relocation of the civic centre which is not in the mandate for change. The council should listen to people. But all that can be done by supportive councillors, such as independent Cllr Randy Conteh (0:28:26) is to propose a motion to refer it to scrutiny, which would allow the petitioner and interested parties to have a proper discussion of the issues with the council at a scrutiny meeting. Independent Cllr Ann James (0:28:37) seconded the motion, but obviously it got voted down by Labour. There were various speakers but the worst was Cllr Joy Garner (0:32:40) who complained that the suggested scrutiny would “clog up the rest of the democratic process”. What democracy?

Sharon Edwards was present as lead petitioner for “save our school crossing wardens on Dividy Road” (an extremely busy road). I would have liked to hear a presentation on this issue, which is occurring in various places across the city and has implications for the safety of children. But there seemed to be a mix up where Sharon Edwards believed she had informed the council she was there but legal officer Paul Hackney (1:20:05) said she had not and suggested she present the petition at the next meeting, councillors agreed.  I'm not totally clear which meeting this is, the next one on 16^th May is the annual council, which wouldn't normally hear petitions, the one after is on 4^th July.

One issue of inconsistency that I wonder about is the treatment of petitioners and public questioners. Often, especially with public questions, the Lord Mayor tends to ask if the questioner is present in the chamber, whether they are or not, that gives them the chance to identify themselves if they have not done so already. But this is not consistently done, especially with petitions, so confusion can arise.  If there were a consistent process such misunderstandings could be avoided and public involvement could be improved.

On another issue local to me, there was a petition to continue the closure of the alley gate at Abingdon Way. There has also been a petition against closure of the alley gate. I can see both sides of the argument but within Ash Green and Pacific Road Residents' Association (in which this street is located and for which I am currently secretary) what concerns the committee most is the lack of proper consultation by the council! We have been appealing with the help of our Cllr Peter Hayward for a proper process, so that whatever the outcome even those on the losing side of the argument can be satisfied everyone has had a proper say. But we have not got this, a delegated decision has been made, our RA has not been consulted and the council is acting against government guidelines to review gating orders annually. Quite honestly this council is hopeless at involving communities in its decisions.

Public questions

There were no speakers present for public questions. I have written an article on how to put these forward, on the March on Stoke web site. The last questions I put in led to a welcome meeting with the cabinet member Cllr Alan Dutton and officers but didn't get me much further forward in extracting answers from the council. I may submit questions for the July full council.

Independent Councillors

I am keen on the idea of having independent councillors who truly represent communities and are not party whipped (and I may even stand as one). Sometimes independent councillors, particularly the city independent group, are accused of being just like a political party and sometimes even of being whipped, which they are not. So it is worth noting that amongst a number of plans and strategies and motions approved at the council meeting, city independents Cllr Dave Conway and Cllr Ann James voted against the joint health and well being strategy and the Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent joint waste local plan, whereas others voted for. So they are not party whipped and sometimes do vote differently. I think the difference in views occurred because of issues with consultation.  Independent councillors often form groups, this can be helpful for support and discussion but especially because the council structure and processes are built around parties and groups, but councillors are still independent and not whipped.

Stoke-on-Trent City Council Budget Meeting 28/2/13

Having spent most of Wednesday and Thursday in the great outdoors and in sunshine for a change, it could have been gloomy in the confines of the council chamber, coming straight from an exhilarating walk from Froghall up into the hills above Ipstones, as I did.  But it wasn't gloomy because for a change the public gallery was full and people were taking an interest in what the council were up to.  There were also protesters outside including some anti-cuts groups, unions and MarchOnStoke.

March On Stoke next meeting: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 7:00pm Temple Street Methodist Church Fenton

This was the full council meeting on the budget.  I'm not reporting on every speaker, just my selected highlights with times from the webcast.  Rather than being a budget, this is more about a list of cuts, £20.9 million this year, closures and job losses.  

Despite Labour councillors blaming the Tory government, they have been cutting and closing for a long time, even when their own Labour government had power and as Labour Council Leader Mohammed Pervez (0:25:29) stated, he expects cuts until the year 2020.  He doesn't make any statement about a Labour government doing anything different if they should gain power.  Mohammed Pervez talks about having a meaningful dialogue with the public but he doesn't seem to be listening to them!  Where I do agree though is on the policy of paying council workers (those who still have a job) the living wage. 

Independent Councillor Paul Breeze (0:40:05) is always well worth a listen.  This was a particularly excellent speech.  He highlighted the amount of interest we have to pay on loans the council takes out with no business plan, no risk assessment and no consultation!  He said that Labour treat the people of Stoke-on-Trent with contempt and accused them of "reckless, irresponsible, dictatorial, arrogant insanity".  Well said!  He was then accused by Lord Mayor Terry Crowe (0:42:26) of personalising things, but he didn't!  he wasn't being negative either, he proposed a list of alternatives which are (in brief):

1. Stop borrowing.

2. Release land to the potteries shopping centre which they will pay for with money now and create jobs.

3. Don't misuse public money on propaganda spreads in newspapers.

4. Scrap 'Our City' (Labour spin magazine).

5. Get rid of consultants and listen to people for free.

6. Use £180,000 from selling land at the potteries shopping centre to hold a referendum on whether people have confidence in the Labour council and executive.

7. Hold an election.

He also strongly stated the value of independent councillors not controlled by political parties and acting solely for and accountable to people and communities in the city.  I very much agree with this.

Independent Councillor Dave Conway (0:45:21) accused Labour of targetting rather than protecting the vulnerable and gave examples of cutting and closing care homes, swimming pools, lollipop crossings and pensioners bus passes.  He has a point here for sure, although he also criticised the council on potholes in the roads.  I don't agree with him on that because my experience in Trentham is that the council came round to fix a lot that appeared in the wet weather.  Dave Conway accused Mohammed Pervez of killing the city, he referred to the protest march and said people have had enough with the Labour council.

Independent Councillor Terry Follows (1:10:12) acknowledged that budgeting is difficult and he has seen councillors in tears over budgets in the past, but he objected to borrowing money for the council to move to the central business district and doesn't want to see Mohammed Pervez in tears over this.  He rubbished the idea of the police moving to the central business district because of the lack of parking.  He said there had been past protest marches localised to specific areas but the March On Stoke included people from all over the city.  He criticised the city's MPs for saying nothing, although I reported in my blog on the March On Stoke Rob Flello's support for the Labour council.

Conservative Councillor Abi Brown (1:26:36) criticised the use of money set aside for investment in projects for savings and being diverted into reserves and mentioned the bungle requiring money being paid back to the EU.

Conservative Councillor Jack Brereton (1:36:54) said the budget does not address jobs and growth as Labour claims.  He critcised council priorities and approach to children's safety in cuts in school crossing patrols.  He quoted the 2012 national highways survey which rated Stoke-on-Trent worst for road repairs and joint worst for road condition.  He suggested cutting 'Our City' magazine as the content is "pure fantasy".  I agree there!  He also very rightly pointed out that communication with residents, consultation and getting people involved is very poor.  He described the Labour plans as "crazy".  I agreed with much of what Jack Brereton said this time, I don't always agree but he does tend to present his case well.

Labour Councillor Ruth Rosenau (1:51:39) said she would rather not be elected because of making what she views as the "right choices".  Well, I hope her wish comes true and surely the right choices are to represent the people.

Independent Councillor Ann James (2:05:49) said Labour blame the Conservatives but she pointed out that the Labour government left the council £26million short of their allocation when they were in power.  She said the council were ignoring people's petitions.

It was then the turn of Councillor Mark Meredith to speak, at which point Lord Mayor Terry Crowe (2:11:25) admitted that the majority of us in the public gallery were being orderly but nevertheless chucked us all out because a few were shouting out.  I don't blame security, they were doing as they were told, but it would have been better if they had been asked to remove just those who were shouting.  The meeting was being broadcast in the Jubilee room upstairs from the council chamber for the overflow of people who had not got into the public gallery, so some of us proceeded there.

Labour Councillor Mark Meredith (2:12:57) talked his usual guff, a lot about business.  He claimed Labour were creating jobs but it does seem to me there are an awful lot of job losses.  He claimed the opposition hadn't provided an alternative, although they had and also claimed Labour were the only serious group.  Mark Meredith had become very unpopular when he was elected mayor, but let's face it, the people of Birches Head and Central Forest Park in their 'wisdom' put him back in the chamber as councillor, although they also did us a good turn in giving us Paul Breeze.  Maybe they are a bit of a mixed bag in that ward.

Independent Councillor Randy Conteh (2:18:14) said he did not condone unruly behaviour, I agree with him there, but said that meetings were in the evening to help involve the public and he didn't like the empty public gallery.  He moved a motion, which was lost, to go then to the vote.  I don't know what the councillors can see on their screens, but I would have been against the motion if there were still councillors who wanted to speak, whatever their political colour.  After all it is a full council and they all have a right to a say.  

Labour Councillor Andy Platt (2:21:52) talked about improving recycling rates, but as far as household waste is concerned they have cut it, as they have ceased to collect our kitchen and garden waste during the winter.

Labour Councillor Majid Khan (2:27:08) said that risk should be assessed.  Yes!  So where is the risk assessment for the central business district then?

Labour Council Leader Mohammed Pervez (2:30:14) as the budget proposer, then had his right of reply.  So he then had a go at the independents for forming a group and wrongly claimed they come to a united view.  But he knows full well that the reason the independents end up in a group is because the council is structured around groups and has group leaders meetings which exclude independents if they don't form a group.  Despite his claim Pervez then admitted that some independents had voted for a previous budget.  Some is not all and the truth is the independents, even within the city independent group, are not party whipped as Labour are.  Then the part which got the Jubilee room in a bit of an uproar was Pervez repeating his admission that he does not know what the total cost of the move of the civic centre to Hanley would be because he doesn't know what is going to be borrowed and what interest is going to be paid.  Incredulously he doesn't seem to see the problem with this, he just doesn't get it.  This is what people have a huge problem with! 

Despite the seriousness of the crazy way Labour are leading the council, some of us in the Jubilee room were a little amused at Terry Crowe (2:45:10) stating the obvious "in favour of the budget you vote yes, against no".  The budget was of course passed because of the large Labour majority.  It was a named vote so people will be able to see how their own councillor voted in the meeting minutes.

While some of us were in the Civic Centre (Stoke), Sarah Gayton was filming outside and has produced some great videos which include interviews with members of the public, they are well worth a watch.

Video part 1

Video part 2

Video part 3


Twitter

Nicky Davis: Nicky_Davis_
March on Stoke: #marchonstoke @MarchonStoke
Sarah Gayton: @farmersonfilm
Stoke-on-Trent City Council: @SOTCityCouncil #sotcc
Stoke-on-Trent City Councillors: my public list 'SOTcouncillors' including
@pervezstoke @terry_crowe53 @AbiBrown1 @CllrRuthRosenau @MarkMeredith01 @CllrAndyST4

March on Stoke

What a fantastic protest today! Despite the cold, we put lots of layers of clothing on and got out there and marched. Why? Because Stoke-on-Trent City Council do not listen to us and because they have no sense and no credibility. We don't want to be plunged into debt to move the Civic Centre back to Hanley, from Stoke. It was in Hanley before, the Civic Centre in Stoke is not that old, recently refurbished and perfectly usable and money has been spent on consultants whose reports do not recommend the move. BBC Midlands Today did a good TV report yesterday and BBC Radio Stoke interviewed council leader Mohammed Pervez who admitted despite the >£40million pound cost he doesn't really know what the final sum will be. We have had great support and coverage by StaffsLive throughout.

We marched in a very long snaking procession from Cannon Place in Hanley to the Civic Centre in Kingsway Stoke. Thanks to the police and stewards for a safe transit and for stopping traffic. Thumbs up for support from motorists and sorry, as they say, for any inconvenience caused. So very well done to all protesters.

A rally was held in Kingsway. We heard from a number of speakers including the youngest, Michelle aged 16. She's not a voter yet but by the 2015 elections she will be able to vote. Points made included that it is our tax money and we don't want the council squandering it, racking up debts that we and our children will have to pay off. They should work for us, the civic move was not on the cards when we voted in 2011. We are not against regeneration, but we don't want our money servicing debt and we think the council plans are illogical and poorly thought out and they do not have their priorities right. We do have an alternative, develop all 6 towns, each with their own character and keep Stoke with its rail and major road links the centre for civic activity. It was clear people want this council out and chanted this. It was noted that it is not the entire council that decides on most issues, it is the controlling group, Labour and specifically the cabinet in charge of making the decisions. What is needed is for people to vote with awareness of the individual they select. Often there will be a good independent candidate there to serve residents only, not a political party. Even if a preferred candidate is a member of a political party, it is the consideration given in making the choice that is important. In particular, there in no need to vote 'the same way' on the local ballot paper as on the general election one. Not all of the councillors are against us, it is just that if they're not in the controlling Labour group, they can't overturn the decisions.

So, what about our Labour MPs, what do they think of our Labour council and the move of the civic centre? Coincidentally, just this morning I received a letter from my MP Rob Flello, following up a 'community conference' he had held with residents in November, which of course I attended. He says “the £40m that is being cited for the cost of the move is money that is to be found from closing some council buildings, savings from bringing staff together and borrowed, not money that is being taken away from other services”. So, why close buildings that are fit for purpose, bringing staff together perhaps means redundancies and the last point, “borrowed”, is what particularly bothers people. If the council has to spend money on interest, servicing the debt, then that surely does impact on services. Rob Flello says “I am pleased at the leadership being shown by the council”. I have to say I hugely disagree with Rob on this point.

I live in Hanford & Trentham ward, where we have embraced the independent idea, with both our councillors being independent. Furthermore, if a councillor has not served us well, we have shown we can turf them out at an election, as we did in the case of Ross Irving.

So, will this protest change the council's mind? I doubt it, but that is only part of the reason to protest. It is also about having our say and raising political awareness. Mind you, I tend to be a pessimist. I didn't expect such a large turnout today, I had thought maybe 300, but most of the figures being quoted are at least two times this. It was thrilling to see so many there, especially as I had personally put out 1,360 leaflets in Trentham. Maybe this encouraged some people to turn up, or if not, at least to know more about the issue. But as Alan Barret had said, he would march if only 10 turned up, that was my view also. Sometimes success can be had, as with the save Trentham High campaign. All the way through that I never thought we had more than a 50% chance of success, but I felt determined to have a say. We won then. What about the next local election, simultaneous with the next general election? I would predict a Labour council by a huge majority. But then, I am a pessimist, so could it be different?

What next? One of the pointers from the rally was let's be politically aware. On February 28^th the full council meets at 5.30pm to discuss the budget (cuts), one of the few decisions made by the full council rather than the cabinet. These meetings are open to the public to observe (no shouting out is allowed, but it's a chance to see how they operate). I have been observing council meetings either in person or on the web for some time, sometimes asking public questions. I have blogged on these on this blog since 8/9/11, for example on the crazy City Sentral name, approving the £40million to move the Civic Centre to Hanley, petitions against the move, independent councillor motion against the move and last year's budget council 23/2/12.  It would be good to see more who attended the rally turning up. The plan is to assemble at 5pm on Thursday, just before the meeting. See you there!

Stoke-on-Trent City Council Meeting 24/1/13

I arrived at the civic centre, in Stoke, for the full council meeting, to see a large impressive banner for the March on Stoke:

March on Stoke

11.30am Saturday 23rd February

The protest march starts at NORSACA, Cannon Place, Hanley

(behind the Victoria on the Square pub) and will end at Kingsway, Stoke.

March on Stoke web site     Leafleting     Twitter: @MarchonStoke #marchonstoke

I refer as usual to webcast times in brackets.  I will concentrate this blog on the motion opposing the move of the civic centre from Stoke, back to Hanley, but first some preliminaries.  

Of note was the minute silence following the sad deaths of former councillor Mick Williams who I knew from Democracy4Stoke and council officer John Ross.

Petition

There were no speakers for public questions but one petitioner Wendy Anderson (in place of Michelle Buckle) (0:29:50) gave a good presentation requesting to keep Stoke Gymnastic Centre in its purpose built premises rather than move to Dimensions and asking for support for community asset transfer.  She outlined how it could be more economically viable to retain it in its current building, which also addresses the safeguarding needs for collection of children by their parents which Dimensions does not. Cllr Mark Meredith (0:34:22) stated that discussions are taking place to resolve child safety issues if the club moves to Dimensions and there is a time limit for possible asset transfer.

Motion to retain Civic Centre in Stoke

I have written a blog on a previous meeting where the council approved a £40million loan to move the civic centre to Hanley and another blog on widespread public opposition to the name 'City Sentral' for the new Hanley shopping centre.

Motion proposed

Cllr Paul Breeze (unaffiliated) proposed and Cllr Dave Conway (City Independent) seconded a motion

CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT

In view of the combination of the continuing dire economic circumstances globally, nationally and, particularly devastatingly, locally in Stoke-on-Trent, and in light of the widespread Stoke-on-Trent public's disapproval of the council's previous decision to borrow £40 million (and rising) of future council tax-payers money to re-locate the civic headquarters from Stoke Town to Hanley, this council  

1.    Radically rethink its overall strategy in relation to the future regeneration of the City Centre and the city of Stoke-on-Trent as a whole, and whilst the strategy is revised, the £40m proposed borrowing for the Central Business District contained in the Councils approved capital programme is suspended. 

2.    Requests the Cabinet to rescind its decision to move the Civic HQ from Stoke Town to Hanley and retains the Civic Centre building in its current location and for its current use in Stoke Town.

It is notable that Cllr Paul Breeze back in July approved the move of the civic centre but in the light of widespread public opposition has put forward the new motion opposing it. He said (0:36:25) he had been assured there would be interested parties to take over use of the civic centre and use the new central business district (CBD) facilities in Hanley but had become aware this wasn't the case and the move would end up costing even more money for the people of the city.

Cllr Dave Conway (0:41:32) pointed out that thousands of pounds of public money had recently been spent renovating the civic centre and moving now is irresponsible. There has been no proper consultation and there is resentment throughout the city.

Debate

Personally I approve of this motion and agree with the points made above. Many councillors commented. I will outline a few key points, categorised in terms of political party or group and add my views in italics:

Labour

Cllr Paul Shotton (0:54:10) said they had consulted and people want jobs. He said once all 6 phases were fully occupied (if they are) this will provide 4,000 jobs, plus 500 construction jobs. He said they are rationalising buildings. Building a replacement building is neither rationalising or rational! Also, they have not asked people specifically if they want to move the civic centre to Hanley.

Cllr Ruth Rosenau (0:49:58) wants more retail and offices to compare better with other cities.

Cllr Alison Wedgwood (1:02:56) gave a bizarre representation which seemed to be saying we want online betting and a city full of betting shops. Well I'm gobsmacked, I can only say I must live on an entirely different planet to her! But then personally I have moral objections to gambling.

Cllr Tom Reynolds (1:07:47) was a little dismissive of those of us in the public gallery. He quoted reports about attracting business to the city and bringing in business rates. Fair enough, although isn't the reality that businesses aren't being attracted? And there is no logic in linking the move of the civic centre to this.

Cllr Alan Dutton (1:13:37) said they need to honour the agreement made with Realis. He said a u-turn by the council would be madness.

Cllr Olwen Hamer (1:16:08) said we have a good new bus station and high speed broadband.

Cllr Mohammed Pervez (1:20:41) blamed the Tory government for cuts and said all the predictions were that cuts would continue until about 2020. Note that he didn't mention the cuts under the previous Labour government and didn't say the cuts would be any different if Labour win the 2015 general election. He also said the Trentham Lakes development was contentious at the time. In my view there are some useful businesses and employment at Trentham Lakes although there have been some problems with noise that have needed attention. But the biggest problem has been building houses there without building a new primary school to go with them. There is currently a shortage of primary school places in the area and in the city.

Cllr Matt Wilcox (1:27:23) said the current image of Stoke-on-Trent is not great. Students born and raised in Stoke-on-Trent tell him they can't wait to leave. The new CBD would be modern. Fair enough but the civic centre is not very old and has recently been renovated, so there is no need for it to move.

Cllr Joy Garner (1:34:27) cited other examples of new building from the past such as the Potteries Museum, although admitted the theatres had been problematic. She said Keynesian policy indicates now is a good time to undertake new building. That last point is fine, but it only makes sense to build what is needed and that doesn't include a new civic centre. Also the theatre problems are indicative that any building plan should be properly thought out and risk assessed, which this doesn't seem to have been.

Cllr Gwen Hassell (1:38:17) said in future that planning decisions of major local importance would be taken away from local government, which would be difficult as central government wouldn't understand our 6 towns structure. But she and Labour on our council are ignoring that anyway by concentrating on Hanley.

Cllr Alastair Watson (1:41:55) said business people are advising that CBD is a good idea.

Cllr Janine Bridges (1:47:55) said construction jobs would upskill the work force and talked about sustainability. But you don't build unnecessarily and construction jobs tend to be short term rather than sustained.

Cllr Martin Garner (1:44:14) criticised the opposition for being apathetic and negative, then admitted to not being happy about the private sector himself.

Cllr Shazad Hussain (1:56:23) said he may not be here at the next election and he needs to do his job. He said the city centre will be great but it might take a very long time.

Cllr Adrian Knapper (2:00:49) claimed companies are interested in the Spode site. So why has it been sitting there doing nothing for years? He said Cardiff bay and Birmingham Brindley Place are great but people get off the train in Stoke and say “1950s”. So renew Stoke then!

Cllr Andy Platt (2:05:17) did talk about Stoke but seemed to think moving the civic centre out would be a good opportunity and seemed to believe the Spode site would be redeveloped. He said Coronation Court on Lonsdale Street is being refurbished and work is being done to create 120 student flats on Hill Street. He claimed there were some green initiatives coming but wasn't going to tell us what they are!

Cllr Mark Meredith (2:12:37) accused the opposition of smirking. But Mark Meredith is one of the biggest smirkers I know! He seemed to think it is fine to get into debt for the CBD as it will either make money or buildings can be sold at profit.

City Independent

Cllr Lee Wanger (0:46:36) said it is old fashioned for office based business to be in the city centre, which is why Festival Park is successful and pointed out that some business people who Labour says support them are based there.

Cllr Randy Conteh (0:52:18) said the biggest thing missing is consultation with residents and he wasn't even asked about this move as ward councillor. He said people's opinions should be valued.

Cllr Terry Follows (1:43:24) made excellent points about failed past regeneration promises and the civic centre in Unity House in Hanley being then moved to Stoke and now back to Hanley. He said the chief executive of the council when he was first appointed had advised cabinet to abandon the CBD because the figures don't add up. He said the civic centre in Stoke has good major road access and the railway station a 5 minute walk away, Stoke makes a good business district. He talked about the disadvantages of debt and paying the interest and blamed Gordon Brown for the national debt and cuts. He referred to the propaganda the council had advertised in the Sentinel and the cost of it. He said amusingly that he had been woken up by Paul Shotton's voice on the radio saying we have to consider the public's wishes! He pointed out that we, the public, were there in the public gallery. A good representation by my ward councillor.

Cllr Ann James (1:51:01) pointed out that the Unity House site, where the civic centre was last time it was in Hanley and which was demolished, had been up for sale for years. She said city centres no longer need as many shops because people prefer out of town centres where there is good parking and also online shopping. She feared that in the absence of a proper risk assessment the debt incurred could become even larger. She said everybody is speaking out against this move as there is no rationale or logic to it.

Cllr Jackie Barnes (2:11:39) suggested that Labour should read the small print on the loan repayments and said she would support the motion as it is basic common sense.

Conservative

Cllr Jack Brereton (1:31:32) said the current decision is a massive risk, there is little private confidence and interest in it and it would mean abandoning Stoke and wasting money. He pointed out there is little support beyond the Labour benches for this project. He mentioned the total lack of consultation, so he had done his own residents' survey in his ward and found 80% against the move, 12% in favour and 8% didn't know. That is a job well done and good points well made.

Cllr Abi Brown (1:58:11) said she supports the CBD principle but moving the civic centre to Hanley is irrational.

Unaffiliated

Cllr Andy Lilley (1:06:00), who has recently left the Labour group, said he supports the CBD vision but said he would support the motion because he cannot justify borrowing the money whilst threatening council staff with cuts in pay and jobs.

Summation

Cllr Paul Breeze (2:29:09) presented a passionate summing up. He referred to the Labour spin in the Sentinel and said that some of those people don't agree with the move of the civic centre and one agrees with the 6 towns philosophy. He accused Labour of not taking a blind bit of notice of the electorate. (Nothing new there then.) He pointed out that the plans are speculative and there is no business plan. Labour has managed to galvanise the whole spectrum of people from political left to right and all points in between and non-political people from various walks of life, workers and pensioners and people who used to but no longer vote Labour, against this move. In a very good analogy with heart surgery he emphasised the risk and lack of consultation. He said when the council get consultants' advice they choose which they want. He referred to two reports, one of which says the council plans for the CBD are high risk and the other which says 2 shopping centres in the city centre can not be sustained. Instead we should focus on realistic options based on what we have. “It will end in tears” he said.

There was a named vote with results which will appear in the minutes, but basically Labour voted against the motion and everyone else for it, so it was defeated. It's a shame the Lord Mayor Terry Crowe didn't read out the numbers because they were a bit small to see clearly on screen, but I think it was 12 for, 26 against.